I'll sign up for an English learning challenge recently. And several times, students or teachers speak on french people. French people suck at English. ok. French people don't like americans. Are you sure ? French people don't like german. Are you really sure ? and the last one but not the least : French people hate everyone. What do you think of that, Agnès ? well, I didn't know the challenge would be on how much self-control I can manifest ;).
I think stereotypes are simultaneously true and false. Do I despise a tourist when I cannot provide them with information in English ? maybe not and I 'm going to tell you why I speak such an awful English. I can't tell the Truth as a universal one, I can just tell you my own experience.
Physical determinism :
In a book, Jean-Marie Gillet explains french-native speakers have earing problems since they are born. The french babies are used to hear just the frequencies of french and this sound track is very little compared to other languages. So, we can't hear certain sounds. And it is our first difficulty when we want to maintain a conversation. understand your interlocutor. And so, we have an extra-work before even think of speaking.
After seven years learning English at school, I was unable to understand a simple conversation. I could hear Hello, thank you, a few words ... but it was like not distinguish ingredients on a plate.
France and its perfectionism :
Maybe it is because we have a catholic culture, we have to be perfect. And everyone give the perfection to a mute child. I think I spoke English during 5 minutes in all my studies. The only time I had the chance to speak longer was when I was stuck at the airport in Philadelphia and an american couple take care of me. I am grateful to them. So silence is perfection, but also, if you dare to speak, you will have to face the judgement of french people around you. Not just your classmates but also your teacher. The last english teacher I had wrote on my copy in french " you'd better learn french before even thinking of learning another language". Perfectionism and learning a language are in opposite ways. We learn making mistakes, Journally is the perfect example for that.
France and its fatalism :
Many friends of mine assume they can't learn English. It is a strong belief in the population. Some are too scared to misunderstand the interlocutor. Some believe that they can't understand a text because they don't know all the words. French is almost fixed, it is a holy thing. When you make a mistake in french, you commit a sin. And so it is for all the languages. With the perfectionism comes the fatalism. So you will not receive compliments because you do the effort to learn and to do mistakes. No encouragement here. On the contrary.
When I'll sign up the challenge, a friend of mine said to me "and you have nothing better to do ?"
No need to learn English :
At each session, the teacher used to ask the students the why, why do you learn English ? I'll summarize for you -> business, money, immigration.
They are in the need to learn English because it is the financial language. They don't mention travelling, or discovering the culture of english-speaking countries. The average french has no need to learn English. To be honest, I have not in the need to learn it or another language. When I reply " for the pleasure of it", teachers seem surprised. Yes my brain begin to hear those sounds, those famous sounds that I couldn't hear before and I'm happy with all these new vibrations. And also, I want to get out all the determinisms that I am here talking about.
Social determinism :
My parents come from the proletariat. And people from this social class, at this period of time, didn't imagine that you could have speak another language. It was implicit but speaking a foreign language was for wealthier social classes. So, even if I had the opportunity to learn English at school, I think that it required me to go beyond this social determinism and to be consciously unfaithful to my parents, to my bloodline. Not all the french have this problem. It is just for the children who have roots in the proletariat. But I think it is the majority because there are many people in the middle class now.
In provisionnal conclusion, when I connect on zoom to take my class, when I meet a english speaker on street, I have to fight all these determinisms, to allow myself to embrace the learning process. Most of french people don't despise you, guys, they are just scared and multi-determined by their history. I'm really sorry if you had a bad experience in France, but I hope some of you will testify the contrary.
photo: Dimitri Anikin - Invalides complex in Paris ( just a touch of humor )
What you said about language mistakes being a sin is really interesting! Just a few days ago, I watched a video about why French people tend to correct you when you make even a little mistake as a foreigner and the same point was made. Honestly, I struggled to believe it but apparently it's true. Anyways, I'm glad you don't let that stop you from improving your English. Keep going! :) (Also I always wondered where that stereotype about French people being rude came from. I've only made good experiences so far but maybe I'm biased because I love the sound of French too much to perceive it as rude XD)
I only had a chance to make corrections on the first four paragraphs. Keep up the good work! I was very interested in the physical determinism section. I didn't know that French has a lot less sounds than many other languages, and that can definitely be difficult. But stick with it. Research actually shows that your ears can regain the ability to hear those sounds if you keep practicing, even as an adult. I've never been to France, but I've know a few French people and they've been lovely. I want to go to France one day, and French is next on my list of languages I'd like to learn :)
In Italy its similar, if you don't use the congiuntivo correctly...its bad news. However, its not the case in English, not at all! No one worries about their English grammar, only possibly about their regional accent. Or should I say, people sometimes judge others on their regional accent. I think its because English grammar is reasonably simple, so it's quite difficult to make grammar mistakes.
I’m happy to testify to the contrary. I always found the French to be helpful so long as I tried to speak French. And now that my French is pretty good, they kindly say “Vous parlez bien le français” despite my errors.
This is a really interesting set of theories. Well written, too!
@Disagreec yes you can believe it :). In my family, when I was young, there was a yearly ritual : " la dictée de Pivot". Bernard Pivot was an TV-animator. He runs intellectual shows. So every year, there is a dictation and children and adults had to do that and I think the game here was to humiliate the one who made the most mistakes. Crazy ! ... and thanks for your comment :)
@stephster428 Thanks for your corrections. It will help me a lot. I checked the date on the book about the physical determinism. 1999. I know in the field of neurosciences that things evolved rather quickly. I try to find out new things about that most recent. Your comment is true about hearing because I understand quite well now after many years of watching videos in English and I've discovered recently that without having worked on it, I understand also español. And that wasn't the case before.
@rachel2021 Your comment makes me laugh because I see 71 mistakes in my short text and you wrote "English grammar is simple" :D. Thanks for this and all your good words :).
@JenP Thanks for your comment. I know now that the right expression is " testify to the contrary" and not "on the contrary". I think this one will stay in my long-term memory. Thanks :)
@charlesthelee Thank you :).
@Agnes Haha well I was referring to English being easy for English mother tongues, whereas even for Italian and French mother tongues, they can make grammar mistakes in their own language, and be judged on it, because the grammar is more complex, whereas in English it's not the case, no one worries about having "good English". Of course, we can recognise someone who speaks English eloquently - or not!
I understand what you mean about the sounds. In learning French, I find I understand it much better when reading it. I just don’t hear the sounds to recognize what is being said.
So far I have not been doing very much talking or writing in French. I am trying to build my vocabulary.
@Irene yes! same experience with hearing. I don't exactly know how I can improve my level of English, which methods ... ? I'm quite lost at the moment. Good learning with your vocabulary. Luckily, many words are similar to french.
Hi Agnes, thank you for your post it was funny to read and at the same time I saw so many things similar to the world I live. I live in Germany near to Strasburg. Where I live I see so many prejudice about French and French people and I'm sad about it. I think a big problem is that we can't talk with each other because we don't try to learn each others language. I saw it in school when we had parents evening and there was so much resistance for French but not for English. I've started learning a little French during my engineer study - just for fun. Ten years ago I could use it in my job - all my collegues who had learnt French in school couldn't or didn't want to. With my poor French skills I had to explain many times our it-systems but I never had any bad experience or bad comments about it. Perhaps I'm the lucky guy meeting only the most pleasant French people.
Ok and now I've lost the thread - but ok, it's the first time I write here and anywhere. Just one thing my recommendation for improving your skills - listen, listen a lot. In English you can find so many good channels at youtube or other platforms with stuff you like and many times also with subtitles - so consume, just consume and time will get you to great English skills.
@André Thanks for your comment and your recommendations. I plead guilty. I don't know Deutsch. I've just "learned" English and Spanish at school. I travelled a few years ago through Germany going from Slovenia to Belgium. And, I was really well received by Germans. I think reality strangles stereotypes. I watch a lot of videos in English with subtitles, also in English. I am in a hurry to have a good level in English because after that, I want to learn other languages.
Hi Agnes, no need to feel guilty for not knowing German. There are so many Germans not knowing German - they speak bayrisch or plattdütsch or alemanisch - and still can communicate with each other ;-) But why hurry - I feel you already have a good level. And hurry never is good it leads to blindness for all the things you can find on the way if you are taking your time and look around. So keep on practising on your pace success will come if you don't put pressure on the learning. I think the most important on our way learning languages is to enjoy, to have fun and to communicate.