English
"I have some bad news: The subjunctive is dying."
"Yaaaaaay!"
"Really? What kind of people are you, cave dwellers? At least show some respect! The subjunctive has been with us for ages, and I'm going to miss it so much. I suggest we show respect and have five minutes of silence. I feel as if another species has gone extinct..."
"Don't worry, Professor. Think of it as progress. You're acting like it was an actual living being. If I was you, I'd forget about it. Just let it go."
"I'm not sure about that. If you were me, you wouldn't have to — the subjunctive would've killed itself a long time ago."
4
Nice linguistic humor!
Thank you, @T-Newfields!
A note for learners of English - the subjunctive isn't extremely common in everyday speech and learning it could be considered lower priority, with one major exception: it's very important to learn and use the "were-subjunctive" correctly. Saying was instead of were in those cases makes the speaker sound uneducated.
@elAmericanoTranquilo As a non-native English speaker, I can't tell how jarring "If I was" actually sounds. This is something I've tried to figure out for a long time. Whenever someone claims that "If I were" is the correct form, there's always someone else who says it's old-fashioned or too formal. I think "if I were" is a safer bet for us non-native speakers. I wonder if you'd pass an IELTS test with flying colors using '"f I was". Mastering the standard rule seems like the best choice to me.
There's an interesting article about this topic on the Merriam-Webster website. It cites F. Scott Fitzgerald and how he used both forms (about a hundred years ago). But we all know writers are another breed. We non-native mortals had better stick to the rules. : DD
@Coral "if I was you" is very jarring and it matches a pattern of speech associated with less-educated speakers. You might see characters in a movie say it, e.g. the old farmer who warns the group of teenagers not to go spend the night in the haunted cabin. It's not something you would ever want to say in a business meeting or in a job interview, or when you met the parents of your fiance, or on a first date, or in any other situation where you care about the impression you are making on the other person. I agree that non-natives should stick to the rules on this one :)
Thank you for the explanation, @elAmericanoTranquilo What you said above makes total sense, and I'll keep it in mind since I have English tests coming up, and "if I were" seems to be a safer option. However, when I hear TED speakers, the philosopher Alain de Botton, or even Obama using "if I was", my understanding of this controversial grammar point immediately goes back to square one.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but my conclusion for now is that "if I were" is the prescriptive form, and "if I was" is the form that is gaining ground beyond informal contexts for whatever reason. There are both proponents and opponents of "if I was" taking over "if I were".
After reading about the history of the English language, I don't see languages (including my own) the same way. I used to be much more strict, but languages evolve constantly, so I think that only time will tell. : )
@Coral Hmm I'm not familiar with de Botton (Wikipedia tells me he spent the first twelve years of his life in Switzerland where he was brought up speaking French and German and then he went on to become a successful author), but it's also true that writers use artistic license to play with dialects. In the case of Obama, if he said it he was probably playing a character, i.e. deliberately trying to sound folksy and more down to earth, to connect with a particular audience and sound less intelectual, to broaden his appeal. Think of it this way - you won't score any points in life by saying "If I was you" - it will never improve someone's impression of your level of education or your proficiency with English. At best, it will be ignored, while at worst, it will create a negative impression.
@Coral, since you mentioned Obama, I pulled up Dreams from My Father (written before he entered politics) from the library and I searched for "if I were". There are 11 occurrences of it in the book, all hypothetical statements. When I searched for "if I was," I found just 6 occurrences. Three of those are when he's quoting someone, speaking in their dialect. Two others are "he asked me if I was..." and "I told him that if I was thin it was only because...". The last one is followed by "as if it were" in the same sentence, so it seems to be a stylistic choice: "I would find myself, at random moments in the day, feeling as if I was living out a preordained script, as if I were following him into an error, captive to his tragedy."
@elAmericanoTranquilo As a non-native English speaker, I can’t really take a strong stance either way. I can only share what I hear online. If I relied only on movies all my dialogues would be full of swear words. But what I’m really interested in is understanding how Americans speak in daily life since I write stories with dialogue and I want them to sound authentic. That’s all, I don’t mean to convince anyone of anything. So here's my question: If my characters used "If I was" would they all come across as uneducated to readers? ( I think I missed a cup of coffee in this conversation) : )))
@Coral I see, so your goal is even more ambitious than improving your English :) Yes, if your characters say if I was they will generally come across as uneducated (to educated readers). The (less educated) characters in Obama's book who said if I was spoke in a dialect that was different from that of Obama's own narrative voice. So it depends on the nature of your characters. If you're writing a story about office workers, or scientists, or graduate students, or journalists, it makes sense for them to say if I were. If one of them has a clogged sink and needs to call a plumber, the plumber would very likely say if I was. Does that make sense?
@elAmericanoTranquilo Hmm… I’m not so sure about that, haha. But thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I’ll probably write some new dialogues soon using both. Hope to see you there. : )
https://youglish.com/pronounce/if_I_was/english
@Coral, you're welcome. Just so I understand: Are you saying you're not convinced by the examples I cited from Obama's book, where he switches between the 2 forms depending on the dialect of the speaker? And you don't believe me when I say that a story about graduate students wouldn't ring true if they were to say if I was?
@elAmericanoTranquilo I do believe you. I have no reason to think you’re lying. But there are a ton of examples on YouGlish. Should I assume that all those people are uneducated? Some of them are doctors and scientists in those videos. (And I’m aware that not all of the examples are what we’re discussing. Some of them use the correct form of “If I was”, as in “They asked me if I was…”).
@Coral I have no doubt that people (deliberately or unknowingly) use the incorrect form in casual speech, but without seeing your examples, I remain skeptical about the existence of this usage among educated professionals. When someone says it incorrectly, there's usually a reason. One of the reasons is that they are uneducated (they don't know better). Another is that they are trying to sound uneducated. Another is that they speak with a specific dialect. Another is that they are emulating that dialect. Another is that they just don't care, or they like the way it sounds. (What other mistakes might they be making?). We're living in the era of user generated content, which means people are creating things without editors, and the quality control bar is low.
Let me put it another way, in the context of a reader of fiction, and with a different example. If I'm reading a novel and one of the characters says "ain't," that's a cue from the author about this character's background. It's part of the character's dialect, and it brings the character to life and perhaps creates a contrast with other characters. I will be expecting that character to speak in their unique voice, and use other colloquial phrases associated with their dialect. But I don't expect to hear "ain't" in a professional setting. Imagine a movie scene with 5 scientists brainstorming. At most, one would say "ain't", and if he did, it would fit in with the rest of his dialect and be consistent with the whole backstory of his character. And yes, I'm sure there are lots of podcasters who like saying "ain't", either to demonstrate cultural pride, or because that's how they've always talked, or to create a colorful character, etc.
@elAmericanoTranquilo Thank you for your perspective. I don’t have any reason to worry about my characters coming across as uneducated, because, as you said, there’s always a reason for people to say “If I was.” I’ll leave that to the reader’s imagination. Thanks so much. I really appreciate your time and insights.
@Coral okay, my perspective is actually that if one of your characters says If I was, I'm going to immediately think "the author is telling me that this character is uneducated," as in Obama's book, or in your story about the student and the profesor. (Here I'm reminded of the advice for writers by Robert Graves in The Reader Over Your Shoulder) But I certainly understand if it's not something you want to spend time worrying about. After all, it's your work and your voice :D Sorry for going on so long. See you soon in another story :)
@elAmericanoTranquilo Thank you so much for your advice. I'll see you in another post!