(written in English to note my progress due to my Japanese being weak)
If nothing else, the book club and attempting to read my first novel in Japanese has shown me that my Japanese language skills leave much to be desired (not that I didn’t know I was still very much a beginner when I started reading this book).
The first week was a disaster. It took me several hours just to read three pages in Japanese and I only knew a few words (probably less than a dozen not counting particles like out equivalents of “and”, “the”, “father” etc).
My approach was not helpful in the least for keeping tabs on my progress as every time I came across the same kanji for the 20th time, I still looked it up and hadn’t a clue what it was 😂
It’s been an experience, but not necessarily a bad one. It’s shown me that the things I do know, I can recognise and understand at least in part and the things that I don’t know are things I can work on when I’ve found the right way to add them to my studying so that I’m actually learning something.
So far, I’ve read more of the book in english on the first day than I have in Japanese through the week. Deciding to read a novel this early in my self studying (6 months in after starting September 2020 and only since December has my studying been properly structured) was a large leap of faith knowing full well my skills were not up to the challenge.
Instead of finding this fully disheartening (I will admit I was ready to give up that first day after several hours of no progress) it’s actually made me think of different methods to use to tackle this and see it as a way to help continue my studying in a different manner.
In short, finding the right way for me to tackle this has taken some effort and researching but has made me more determined to continue even if I don’t finish it along with everyone else. It will take me quite some time to finish this book in Japanese, least of all because of the fact it’s across two volumes in Japanese and more to do with the fact I’ve still not completed the prologue in Japanese yet. Almost but not yet 😅
Hopefully the methods I’ve learned in this so far will continue to help me tackle more difficult texts while reading to help improve my skills further. There is always the hope that continuing to strive to improve my reading and by measuring my progress I will get to a stage where I can read and understand more of the language thus improving my overall level of skill. 🙂
Perhaps you should keep the b ook for future reading, but concentrate now on easier, comprehensible texts. The Krashen idea!
The book is really difficult! I'm reading it in Spanish and it's a more advanced book that I've ever read in Spanish before. One of my strategies is to have the swedish copy of it beside me too and read in both books (now I read a bit in Spanish first, then Swedish and then Spanish again). It's really helpful and this approach is working pretty well for me at the moment. I belive you will get through that book if you want to, one way or another. (It's also okay to read it in a language you're more comfortable in if you want to :)
@chazy, I won’t finish it in the time we’ve got but I’m using it as a learning experience for more advanced texts. I’m also currently reading short stories and beginner level texts as part of my self study (they have Furigana as well as s sentence by sentence breakdown of the stories after I’ve read them). The beginner level texts are all well and good but I discovered when learning languages at school that if I only focus on what I can do, I’ll never improve much. I know the book is difficult but if I manage to read even a small portion of it snd start to recognise some of the kanji I’m coming across, then I’m looking at that as an improvement on what I could do before. Documenting my progress snd what works and doesn’t, week by week will allow me to look back on it and see how far I’ve come. 🙂
You are right though, I should stick to beginner level texts at the moment.
@Chocolate_Frog, I’ve got the book in Spanish (I’m also learning Spanish but at a much slower rate), English and Japanese. My original plan was to read each section/ chapter in English so I get the gist of what’s happening then try to read it in Japanese and try to understand it sentence by sentence. The book has no Furigana (writing above the kanji symbols) so I’m looking at words snd I can’t understand what they are or even try to sound them as I read. I’ve had to use a writing app for recognising kanji symbols both separately and as words to see if I can understand it but that’s what’s taking so long as I’m writing out kanji I’ve read previously but not remembered.
I did decide to then write them on flashcards and that way I can look them up quicker if I remember I’ve already seen them but it is very slow going and very difficult in Japanese. Then again, my Spanish isn’t much better so I should probably stick to reading it in english and seeing about reading it in Japanese and Spanish at a later date. 🙂 Good luck reading it in Spanish.
What methods did you try/think of? I am about to write a post on my foray into reading Finnish. My understanding is that written Japanese is a formidable challenge. It probably has different methods than I am used to.
I also have the same problem with at-my-level texts. As an adult, it is just too hard to keep my interest, so whatever keeps me studying gets priority. Comprehensible input would be great but I can only read the same simple stories so many times. Even kids books still end up using lots of new vocabulary that isn't high frequency. In a novel, there can be more repetition of vocabulary without repetition of plot.
Yes, I also think this book is veeeeery hard. It really sucks that there is no ebook or audiobook version. Now I am on page 50 and I have over 300 unknown words (which is "only" 6 or so per page). And I have the feeling that it is always that one word I need to understand the whole sentence. Seldom I get the gist without looking it up. I highly recomend the app "Yomiwa", which has the feature to write the Kanji with the finger on screen, and it also has audio for the words (for most? I do not use that, that's why I can't say for sure). I will write an update on my approach tomorrow. Long story short, reading a physical book is not effective for beginner or intermediate, but only effective if one is really advanced. But I have accepted the challenge :)
I think if you learned Japanese for only 6 months, it's not time to read novels. Suggest you to remember more vocabularies and grammers before trying novel. I tried Japanese version of ebook "little prince" after 7.5 months and managed to finish it with enjoyment. I was JLPT N3 level at that time. And I tried to read another Japanese novel then can't go on due to my vocab and grammer limit, so I stopped for 2.5 months to push myself to learn intensively to remember more words and all grammers used in N2, N1, and I noticed there're many grammers in N2,N1 that are used frequently in written articles. I finnally reachd N1 level now but I'm douting if I can read this book. How I wish there's ebook available. I ordered this book today.
@casslovesbooks, I’ve been using a mix of techniques suggested to me. As there’s no audio I’ve been making physical flashcards of kanji words that pop up several times so that if I recognise the kanji I can check the Japanese word and meaning at a glance. I’ve also been tackling smaller sections at a time, like taking a paragraph and reading through it then checking my understanding of it by reading the paragraph in the English copy. It’s not an exact translation but if I’ve picked up the important parts and understood it well enough then I feel I’m doing not too badly.
For sections that I’m not understanding or getting the gist of, I’m trying to figure out what went wrong and then adjusting my study habits as a result. For instance if the issue is not understanding the use of certain particles I’m looking into those and how they can be used to mean different things im different situations. If it’s grammar then I’m adjusting my grammar studying accordingly.
The most difficult thing for me though is my lack of vocabulary. I can understand very basic vocabulary and sentence endings but my vocab in Japanese is still very much baby/toddler stage I’d say. I’ve only been studying around 6 months and the first 3 of those were focused more on things like days of the week, colours, family members titles/names and general counting etc. In essence, very basic stuff. The last few months has been working through part of the Genki textbook and then switching to minna no nihongo when I realised that I needed immersion to absorb what I’m reading.
@Sepp, I’ve been using a free iOS app, Kanji look up. It lets you write onscreen with the correct keyboard and also lets you check words of more than one kanji. It has a section for individual kanji and another for kanji words but will also show you similar looking kanji as you write. It has a scan/ camera feature too if you want to scan instead of write. I’ll need to check out Yomiwa and see what it’s like as the audio would be helpful. Thanks for suggesting it 🙂
@Jason_cui, you’re right, at my level reading a novel isn’t possible but my purpose in attempting this was to see how much of a challenge it would be and motivate me to continue learning. Constantly reading the same childrens stories or excepts in the Genki textbooks were wearing me down with boring material so I thought that if I attempted this challenge, knowing full well it would be difficult and I’d most likely not get passed the first chapter, it would show me the things I need to work on to understand where my shortcomings are. It also gives me something to measure my progress with that isn’t use JLPT tests.
Self studying is difficult for me to pin point what I need to work on most as I’ve no teacher to guide me. Even though my JLPT level isn’t yet N5, there are things in N3 and N2 tests that I can understand and there are short texts that I can read above N5/N4 level that I can understand comfortably without looking much up.
I used a similar process when studying Spanish and I found that it helped me to focus my studying on the things that needed the most work at that time. I know that I’m not ready to read native level content but the challenge continues to motivate me to strive harder in my studying and helps me focus on things that I’m weaker at. Reading and listening to native content is part of my reasons for studying the languages that I study.
Although it can seem strange to throw myself in the deep end knowing I can’t swim, it makes me less likely to feel anxious about taking on difficult content and makes me less uncomfortable about the unknown/ ambiguity in the content I’m reading. For me, this isn’t just about trying to read a very difficult text for my level of understanding, it’s about understanding myself and how to adapt my studying as I progress through my language learning journey 🙂
Good luck when you read it, at N1 level I’m sure you’ll understand a lot more in it than I have and I hope you enjoy the book when you read it. 🙂
@CatDQ, admire your brave approach, I found myself suffering a lot when I started novel "I'm cat" two months ago, 20-25% of unkown words in the paper book is enough to frustrate me, stop to search meaning of word was annoying and I finally gave up. If it was an ebook, maybe it'll be much easier for me to continue. Ebook seems so behind for Japanese and I found very few ebook at amazon.jp, luckily I found English and Chinese kindle version available for the shadow of the wind which made me more confident to start now.🙂 Good luck to your reading journey too.
@Jason_Cui, Thank you. It certainly can be frustrating having to look up lots of words and taking a long time to read even a small section. I think because I knew from the start that it wasn’t possible for me to read it like I would a book in English and that it would be a lot more difficult than reading a children’s book at this stage, there was no pressure for me. It was more about trying to understand my limitations and where my biggest weaknesses are, if that makes sense.
Ebooks are certainly a lot easier for looking things up and I’ve found a lot of graded reader ebooks in Japanese on Amazon.co.uk. I’ve also found audio of certain ones through audible or Amazon as well though I’ve found that Alexa can read the book to you without the audio if you have the ebook files through Amazon.
Trying to get full novels in Japanese ebook is difficult though. In time I know that I’ll get better at reading it and understand more but even if I can recognise parts of sentences or some kanji words, I’m taking that as a bonus just now and certainly an improvement on what I could have read 6 months ago 🙂
I personally would not recommend this book -- or any literary novel with lots of descriptions --if one's level were not a solid intermediate and higher for the simple reason that when something is too difficult, it is not enjoyable. I have found that learning is most effective when I am enjoying the process. I spend more time doing it -- and thus reinforce and retain vocabulary and grammar -- when I can understand 85%+ of the material. Less than that is a chore and is tolerable for a paragraph or two, but not for a 400+ page book. (As background: I am reading the book in Spanish and have read a few novels in that language previously but none as "literary" -- that is, with so many metaphors and elaborate descriptions. I look up about 3-5 words per page and find this comfortable. I am not reading it in Russian precisely because it would be too difficult at my present level.)
Still, for those who want to get something out of this book despite being at a lower level in your target language, I suggest a different approach than just trying to slog through 400+ pages. Instead, read it alongside a translation in your native language and then write a short synopsis of what happens in your target language, using words from the target language along the way. Focus on sentences that are appropriate to your level and skip the elaborate descriptions. For example, in Chapter 1, describe each main character: who is Daniel, where does his father take him and why? Choose words that you already know and add a handful of common words from the book that you want to know and use NOW. (In my experience, I don't remember what I don't use so there's no point in trying to memorize words that I am not likely to use now.) Add as much or as little detail as is comfortable at your present level. Trying to remember "snort, shrugged his shoulders, etc." is probably not a high priority for you at this point. I did this when I read a dual Russian-English compendium of historical Russian short stories. There were many words and phrases that were outdated or very literary which I could see quickly on the English page. This enabled me to understand the meaning of the sentences and move along in the story without spending time looking up words in a dictionary. (Too many and too tedious.) Yet focusing on the vocabulary that I did know and using it to describe the basics of the plot in my own words in the target language was productive. In short, I suggest tailoring how you use the book to your present skills so that it is motivating, not demoralizing. By the way, if you have never been to Barcelona, you can look up the street views of the places mentioned in the book on Google Maps which is very cool. :)
@TraceyG, thank you for the insight. 🙂 I have the book in English and Japanese so was reading small parts of it in English then reading the same parts in Japanese trying to pick out words I knew and get a feel for if I was understanding it or not when reading it in Japanese. It was more an experiment on my part to see how much I could understand and where I needed to work on things. The small amount I’ve been able to read in Japanese and understand has shown me what I know and where my weaknesses lie in trying to understand native level texts. I can understand more than I can write about at the moment but for now I’m focusing more on graded readers and upping my kanji recognition and readings in addition to my usual schedule of studying. When I re-tackle this in a few months, I’ve now got a basis for what I could do at this stage and can compare it to what I can do then to see any improvement.
Writing a summary of each section or chapter that I read is a great idea too. That would help cement my understanding as well as give me the opportunity to use the vocabulary and grammar I know. Unfortunately at the moment, in Japanese my limited ability to write it means that my sentences are very basic which mean I would struggle with trying to write even a basic summary but it’s definitely something I will try when I come back to the Japanese version in a few months. Thank you for suggesting it. 🙂
The biggest issue I found was not having Furigana/ruby above the kanji meaning if I don’t recognise the kanji symbols, I can’t read it whereas with books with Furigana/ruby, I can still read even if I don’t understand the kanji symbols.
That’s an awesome idea about checking the area using google maps, didn’t think of that and I’ve never been to Barcelona before so it might help me visualize the setting better.
I don't know Japanese so my question may be naive, but why are you not writing in Japanese as part of your language learning? In my experience, writing in my target language is a really important way of reinforcing my knowledge and a key tool for practicing. I started learning Russian a few years ago on my own and at first wrote in block Cyrillic letters because I didn't know how to change the keyboard on my computer. Although I figured out how to do so a year later, it turns out that writing by hand was a superior way for me to reinforce my language learning precisely because I wrote out words and then sentences that were meaningful to ME at that moment about my life. I started a journal and wrote daily whatever I could about my life, gradually adding the new vocabulary that I was acquiring or which I actively sought out on Google Translate. (I included filler words and expressions that I use in English such as, "however, anyway, last week" because it enabled me to feel more comfortable when I spoke.) I focused on vocabulary and basic sentences that I wanted to use right then about my life and then repeated them out loud without reading what I wrote (which was hard at first but then became easier and easier). I only wrote in block letters on the theory that I wanted to practice what I would see printed, thus increasing my visual recognition of words and common phrases. Studies have shown that writing by hand is actually superior to typing on a computer because you are pronouncing the word in your head as you do so (which you don't do why typing) and you learn and reinforce spelling. You are also creating a muscle memory for writing out the words which helps reinforce the association with the symbol(word). While I realize that Japanese characters are not "letters," still, the more you practice anything, the better you get at it. Reading in any language requires become so familiar with certain visual symbols/patterns that you automatically know their meaning and can read sentences and common phrases quickly. What better way to reinforce reading, than by writing the words and phrases that you are likely to see printed. What better way to practice pronunciation than by having written short sentences that are meaningful to you at your present level which you can then practice on your own and which you can add to as your knowledge increases. I wouldn't avoid writing in Japanese because it is "hard" (different). Rather, break it down into small bits so it is easy and do it for a short period of time. The key is consistency: it will become easier. :) Why would you NOT practice this skill?